1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,389 [Music] 2 00:00:31,609 --> 00:00:03,970 foreign 3 00:00:34,370 --> 00:00:31,619 [Music] 4 00:00:36,110 --> 00:00:34,380 Fred Anderson welcome back to somewhere 5 00:00:39,229 --> 00:00:36,120 in the skies 6 00:00:41,810 --> 00:00:39,239 thank you thank you I'm I'm it's such a 7 00:00:45,410 --> 00:00:41,820 pleasure to be back you know even if I I 8 00:00:47,330 --> 00:00:45,420 I it was a recording uh the last time if 9 00:00:50,810 --> 00:00:47,340 I remember it correctly so I wasn't 10 00:00:54,650 --> 00:00:50,820 really there live you know over here 11 00:00:57,229 --> 00:00:54,660 live uh and then like I mentioned to you 12 00:00:58,850 --> 00:00:57,239 before we started here I am a little bit 13 00:00:59,830 --> 00:00:58,860 Starstruck to be on somewhere in 14 00:01:03,830 --> 00:00:59,840 Disguise 15 00:01:07,310 --> 00:01:03,840 I must admit that you know so it's so so 16 00:01:10,850 --> 00:01:07,320 now I'm I'm like I've been writing to my 17 00:01:14,330 --> 00:01:10,860 my friends and my partner and you know I 18 00:01:17,810 --> 00:01:14,340 hope it doesn't sound silly now I'm you 19 00:01:20,030 --> 00:01:17,820 know this Swedish accent Swedish Chef I 20 00:01:23,270 --> 00:01:20,040 don't know so 21 00:01:25,310 --> 00:01:23,280 no no first of all that's extremely 22 00:01:28,249 --> 00:01:25,320 flattering I'm honored to have you on 23 00:01:29,570 --> 00:01:28,259 and there's a reason uh we're having you 24 00:01:32,690 --> 00:01:29,580 on and that's because we're going to 25 00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:32,700 talk all about Swedish UFOs and the 26 00:01:37,670 --> 00:01:35,520 Swedish Men In Black and I couldn't 27 00:01:39,649 --> 00:01:37,680 think of a better person to come on to 28 00:01:41,569 --> 00:01:39,659 talk about that so no it's a true honor 29 00:01:45,230 --> 00:01:41,579 to have you here and yes we should 30 00:01:47,390 --> 00:01:45,240 mention you were featured in episode 259 31 00:01:51,230 --> 00:01:47,400 of somewhere in the skies where I 32 00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:51,240 covered uh Nordic UFOs and um a few 33 00:01:56,389 --> 00:01:53,520 cases out of Sweden and you had written 34 00:01:59,030 --> 00:01:56,399 a brilliant article and I've reached out 35 00:02:01,850 --> 00:01:59,040 to you and I said is it okay if I 36 00:02:03,770 --> 00:02:01,860 feature this in the episode and then it 37 00:02:06,590 --> 00:02:03,780 dawned on me I'm like what would be even 38 00:02:09,949 --> 00:02:06,600 better let's just have Fred tell the 39 00:02:13,970 --> 00:02:09,959 story and you were so gracious and kind 40 00:02:16,010 --> 00:02:13,980 to let me uh do that and um hey people 41 00:02:17,930 --> 00:02:16,020 love that episode as I know they're 42 00:02:20,510 --> 00:02:17,940 gonna love this one so 43 00:02:23,949 --> 00:02:20,520 um yeah let's I guess that's kind of to 44 00:02:26,510 --> 00:02:23,959 dive into the subject we're going to be 45 00:02:28,670 --> 00:02:26,520 discussing and that is the Swedish Men 46 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:28,680 in Black now when people think of the 47 00:02:35,150 --> 00:02:31,200 Men in Black they often think of the 48 00:02:38,869 --> 00:02:35,160 obviously the movies with Will Smith and 49 00:02:42,110 --> 00:02:38,879 um these very old cases in the United 50 00:02:44,390 --> 00:02:42,120 States but this phenomenon has happened 51 00:02:45,770 --> 00:02:44,400 worldwide we've heard of cases all over 52 00:02:48,530 --> 00:02:45,780 the world 53 00:02:51,650 --> 00:02:48,540 um and you were able to dig up several 54 00:02:55,070 --> 00:02:51,660 Swedish Men In Black cases as well which 55 00:02:57,589 --> 00:02:55,080 I was never uh Keen to and I know a lot 56 00:03:00,050 --> 00:02:57,599 of our audience may never have known 57 00:03:03,410 --> 00:03:00,060 these either so um we're going to be 58 00:03:06,530 --> 00:03:03,420 talking about that tonight but before we 59 00:03:09,229 --> 00:03:06,540 even do that I have to ask the origin 60 00:03:12,050 --> 00:03:09,239 story of Fred Anderson how did you first 61 00:03:13,070 --> 00:03:12,060 get involved with UFOs what sparked your 62 00:03:18,050 --> 00:03:13,080 interests 63 00:03:18,060 --> 00:03:23,770 here 64 00:03:30,490 --> 00:03:27,470 he was a Russian Swedish Swedish 65 00:03:33,170 --> 00:03:30,500 journalist you know in in 66 00:03:37,850 --> 00:03:33,180 Popular Science you know he wrote about 67 00:03:41,449 --> 00:03:37,860 space about science in general and and 68 00:03:45,350 --> 00:03:41,459 he also had a keen interest in UFOs and 69 00:03:48,110 --> 00:03:45,360 aliens but he was also a skeptic he was 70 00:03:51,770 --> 00:03:48,120 really really skeptic so so this book 71 00:03:54,170 --> 00:03:51,780 specifically is is I mean it's it's 72 00:03:56,690 --> 00:03:54,180 clearly his he really doesn't believe 73 00:03:58,850 --> 00:03:56,700 what he's writing about but you can also 74 00:04:02,410 --> 00:03:58,860 sense that he has such a passion for it 75 00:04:05,570 --> 00:04:02,420 he's he's so curious about these cases 76 00:04:08,990 --> 00:04:05,580 and there's you know Swedish cases there 77 00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:09,000 is uh uh maybe foremost American cases 78 00:04:15,670 --> 00:04:12,060 this is the first time I heard about the 79 00:04:18,830 --> 00:04:15,680 Sakura incident with the lonely Samora 80 00:04:22,009 --> 00:04:18,840 and still one of my favorite favorite 81 00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:22,019 cases out there actually so this one I 82 00:04:26,570 --> 00:04:24,000 think my mother found it for me at some 83 00:04:30,530 --> 00:04:26,580 secondhand store and you know I was 84 00:04:32,270 --> 00:04:30,540 stuck directly into the subject so I 85 00:04:34,510 --> 00:04:32,280 mean I I blame everything on this book 86 00:04:39,050 --> 00:04:34,520 you know 87 00:04:41,870 --> 00:04:39,060 I love that I blame everything on uh my 88 00:04:43,610 --> 00:04:41,880 UFO sighting and a book as well by 89 00:04:47,450 --> 00:04:43,620 Stanton Friedman which was crash a 90 00:04:49,490 --> 00:04:47,460 Corona about the Roswell UFO crash so I 91 00:04:52,189 --> 00:04:49,500 know well my friend how much these books 92 00:04:56,510 --> 00:04:52,199 can kind of take a hold of you 93 00:04:58,430 --> 00:04:56,520 um whether imaginary or real and and 94 00:05:01,310 --> 00:04:58,440 that kind of plays into what we're going 95 00:05:03,650 --> 00:05:01,320 to be talking about tonight in terms of 96 00:05:06,110 --> 00:05:03,660 the Men in Black are they real have 97 00:05:09,710 --> 00:05:06,120 people actually encountered these uh 98 00:05:12,590 --> 00:05:09,720 these people or uh are they even people 99 00:05:14,210 --> 00:05:12,600 I know we're gonna discuss later some of 100 00:05:17,930 --> 00:05:14,220 the theories on what the Men in Black 101 00:05:20,650 --> 00:05:17,940 might be uh but before we even do that 102 00:05:23,390 --> 00:05:20,660 okay so you have this interest in UFOs 103 00:05:25,010 --> 00:05:23,400 uh you write over 104 00:05:27,710 --> 00:05:25,020 um you know you write out your articles 105 00:05:29,930 --> 00:05:27,720 over at medium and that's where I found 106 00:05:33,170 --> 00:05:29,940 this one and it really caught my 107 00:05:37,490 --> 00:05:33,180 attention so I gotta ask what inspired 108 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:37,500 you to to look into the Men in Black 109 00:05:44,810 --> 00:05:42,060 well uh I I have a tendency to 110 00:05:47,450 --> 00:05:44,820 yeah you know I I when I get a fixed 111 00:05:50,689 --> 00:05:47,460 idea and I I can't stop thinking about 112 00:05:52,370 --> 00:05:50,699 it it's it's uh I don't know if I'm 113 00:05:53,330 --> 00:05:52,380 somewhere in the Spectrum but I can't 114 00:05:55,550 --> 00:05:53,340 stop 115 00:05:58,249 --> 00:05:55,560 looking into something when I start 116 00:06:00,529 --> 00:05:58,259 thinking about it and and when it was 117 00:06:03,350 --> 00:06:00,539 the case with the Men in Black in in 118 00:06:07,790 --> 00:06:03,360 Sweden is because I couldn't find them 119 00:06:10,610 --> 00:06:07,800 at all uh it was um there was like no 120 00:06:13,909 --> 00:06:10,620 information uh we have a lot of very 121 00:06:17,990 --> 00:06:13,919 very interesting uh Flying Saucer cases 122 00:06:20,210 --> 00:06:18,000 in in Sweden uh we have humanoids we 123 00:06:21,890 --> 00:06:20,220 have other kinds of being where we have 124 00:06:25,850 --> 00:06:21,900 a lot of ghosts so we have a lot of 125 00:06:28,010 --> 00:06:25,860 these things but there was almost 126 00:06:31,249 --> 00:06:28,020 nothing written about men in black and 127 00:06:34,790 --> 00:06:31,259 when I looked in Old UFO magazines and 128 00:06:39,350 --> 00:06:34,800 newsletters and books from Sweden they 129 00:06:42,110 --> 00:06:39,360 were often as mentioned briefly uh so I 130 00:06:45,670 --> 00:06:42,120 I actually contacted hokan Bloom please 131 00:06:50,270 --> 00:06:45,680 to the brilliant Swedish researcher 132 00:06:53,350 --> 00:06:50,280 mostly about UFOs in relation to the 133 00:06:55,270 --> 00:06:53,360 esoteric so he's a he's an expert on 134 00:06:56,830 --> 00:06:55,280 contactees and 135 00:06:59,150 --> 00:06:56,840 similar 136 00:07:01,610 --> 00:06:59,160 characters out there and I asked him 137 00:07:06,950 --> 00:07:01,620 have you ever heard about Men In Black 138 00:07:09,730 --> 00:07:06,960 in Sweden and he he sent me a link to a 139 00:07:12,890 --> 00:07:09,740 little text he he wrote once 140 00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:12,900 and that you know that made me realize 141 00:07:19,370 --> 00:07:15,240 okay there is stuff out there so I 142 00:07:22,670 --> 00:07:19,380 continued to go through that source and 143 00:07:24,529 --> 00:07:22,680 I found a couple more not many but there 144 00:07:27,110 --> 00:07:24,539 is a couple of cases that I actually 145 00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:27,120 find quite interesting 146 00:07:33,529 --> 00:07:30,960 um so I mean thanks to having access to 147 00:07:36,790 --> 00:07:33,539 the archives for The Unexplained and 148 00:07:40,309 --> 00:07:36,800 they're amazing 149 00:07:43,070 --> 00:07:40,319 scanned collection of newsletters and 150 00:07:46,370 --> 00:07:43,080 and searchable newsletters and magazines 151 00:07:49,969 --> 00:07:46,380 I was able to dig up a few more cases 152 00:07:52,189 --> 00:07:49,979 which I wrote about an article so you 153 00:07:53,870 --> 00:07:52,199 know the main thing was that I couldn't 154 00:07:56,629 --> 00:07:53,880 find anything and if I can't find 155 00:07:59,749 --> 00:07:56,639 anything then I must find it 156 00:08:01,610 --> 00:07:59,759 so I find it really interesting kind of 157 00:08:04,129 --> 00:08:01,620 how you were able to dig up some of 158 00:08:06,589 --> 00:08:04,139 these cases of Men In Black Fred but I 159 00:08:10,550 --> 00:08:06,599 know you kind of have a a personal story 160 00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:10,560 too of a possible and we use that term 161 00:08:16,730 --> 00:08:14,400 loosely possible uh brush with a Men In 162 00:08:19,070 --> 00:08:16,740 Black would you mind telling us the uh 163 00:08:20,930 --> 00:08:19,080 the story of loam and how that kind of 164 00:08:24,350 --> 00:08:20,940 ties into all of this 165 00:08:26,990 --> 00:08:24,360 yeah it's it's um 166 00:08:29,869 --> 00:08:27,000 it it was around the first time when I 167 00:08:34,550 --> 00:08:29,879 started to think about Swedish Men In 168 00:08:35,990 --> 00:08:34,560 Black uh encounters and uh I had just 169 00:08:38,510 --> 00:08:36,000 begun this was a while ago you know 170 00:08:41,389 --> 00:08:38,520 maybe two years ago or something and I 171 00:08:43,370 --> 00:08:41,399 had I started to to do some light 172 00:08:45,410 --> 00:08:43,380 research see if I could find anything 173 00:08:47,389 --> 00:08:45,420 and I was you know it was going through 174 00:08:49,670 --> 00:08:47,399 my mind all the time 175 00:08:52,610 --> 00:08:49,680 and I remember I ran down to the store 176 00:08:53,509 --> 00:08:52,620 and to do some shopping and on my way 177 00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:53,519 home 178 00:08:59,570 --> 00:08:56,760 uh a man passed me I didn't see his face 179 00:09:04,070 --> 00:08:59,580 but a man passed me and I could I could 180 00:09:07,070 --> 00:09:04,080 sense that he was stopping behind me uh 181 00:09:08,630 --> 00:09:07,080 I could I could literally sense his eyes 182 00:09:11,329 --> 00:09:08,640 in my neck 183 00:09:14,449 --> 00:09:11,339 and I turned around and I noticed that 184 00:09:18,949 --> 00:09:14,459 this guy who was dressed in a dark 185 00:09:22,009 --> 00:09:18,959 jacket and a dark Hood uh was standing 186 00:09:25,009 --> 00:09:22,019 still there at the at the street just 187 00:09:27,410 --> 00:09:25,019 looking at me and I felt okay 188 00:09:29,870 --> 00:09:27,420 you know just during daytime I'm not 189 00:09:31,610 --> 00:09:29,880 worried in that way that it could be 190 00:09:34,509 --> 00:09:31,620 dangerous or something so I just okay 191 00:09:36,949 --> 00:09:34,519 he's he thought I looked like like you 192 00:09:38,750 --> 00:09:36,959 thought I look like someone or maybe 193 00:09:40,790 --> 00:09:38,760 he's a drug dealer you know it's I've 194 00:09:43,210 --> 00:09:40,800 been asked several times here to to ask 195 00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:43,220 to buy substances 196 00:09:49,009 --> 00:09:46,080 so anyway I ignored him and I walked up 197 00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:49,019 to the park in front of our house 198 00:09:53,470 --> 00:09:51,360 and once again I have this feeling that 199 00:09:56,630 --> 00:09:53,480 you know he's behind me 200 00:10:01,090 --> 00:09:56,640 and I look back and yes he's coming 201 00:10:03,769 --> 00:10:01,100 behind me you know maybe 20 30 meters 202 00:10:06,530 --> 00:10:03,779 and now I start to get a bit worried 203 00:10:09,230 --> 00:10:06,540 actually so I have walked to the to the 204 00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:09,240 house and I turn around 205 00:10:14,930 --> 00:10:12,240 and then I I just see him standing on a 206 00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:14,940 very specific spot on this this path 207 00:10:18,949 --> 00:10:16,800 through this little forest in the park 208 00:10:21,290 --> 00:10:18,959 and you're standing there looking at me 209 00:10:23,269 --> 00:10:21,300 it's like it's like from I Know What You 210 00:10:27,710 --> 00:10:23,279 Did Last Summer basically you know with 211 00:10:30,949 --> 00:10:27,720 the 2D and okay okay so I hurry uh hurry 212 00:10:35,449 --> 00:10:30,959 in I lock the door everything is fine I 213 00:10:38,509 --> 00:10:35,459 don't think about this for a day maybe 214 00:10:40,370 --> 00:10:38,519 so I mean the next day I'm sitting 215 00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:40,380 working in the living room and I sense 216 00:10:45,170 --> 00:10:42,720 that I sense I see that the cats are 217 00:10:47,509 --> 00:10:45,180 they're they're focusing on something in 218 00:10:50,269 --> 00:10:47,519 the hallway and I go out and look and I 219 00:10:54,829 --> 00:10:50,279 see the handle the door handle moving 220 00:10:57,650 --> 00:10:54,839 like someone is trying to get back 221 00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:57,660 and and I'm like all right right so I 222 00:11:02,389 --> 00:11:00,480 look out the peephole and I see I see 223 00:11:05,269 --> 00:11:02,399 this man I recognize him I recognize the 224 00:11:08,690 --> 00:11:05,279 clothes I see him standing outside the 225 00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:08,700 door and I even snap a photo to be safe 226 00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:10,620 through the people you know to you know 227 00:11:15,889 --> 00:11:13,500 for for you know yeah and I open the 228 00:11:17,210 --> 00:11:15,899 door and I asked so you're like you're 229 00:11:22,569 --> 00:11:17,220 looking for someone I must have been 230 00:11:29,090 --> 00:11:25,430 he pronounces luam 231 00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:29,100 and I said no there's no luam here and 232 00:11:35,389 --> 00:11:32,760 and close the door and he continues to 233 00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:35,399 be outside the door for a while 234 00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:38,160 and then he leaves and then for a month 235 00:11:44,750 --> 00:11:42,420 this man showed up outside our door in 236 00:11:46,490 --> 00:11:44,760 the stairs he tried to get inside our 237 00:11:48,889 --> 00:11:46,500 apartment in the middle of the night he 238 00:11:49,810 --> 00:11:48,899 rang the doorbell I remember once at 239 00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:49,820 midnight 240 00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:53,040 uh one evening uh I was kind of 241 00:11:57,710 --> 00:11:55,680 shielding I looked out the balcony and I 242 00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:57,720 could see him standing outside the 243 00:12:04,090 --> 00:12:01,200 balcony looking up at our apartment and 244 00:12:06,889 --> 00:12:04,100 I could see his white eyes you know 245 00:12:08,690 --> 00:12:06,899 glittering in the darkness and I like I 246 00:12:11,449 --> 00:12:08,700 told my partner you know he's here again 247 00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:11,459 he's here again and every time we met 248 00:12:16,130 --> 00:12:13,440 him he asked for luam 249 00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:16,140 and it he this continued for like a 250 00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:18,079 month basically 251 00:12:25,490 --> 00:12:21,180 uh and then he disappeared again 252 00:12:28,329 --> 00:12:25,500 so I'm I'm I mean it was a mysterious 253 00:12:31,370 --> 00:12:28,339 man he'd be saved behaved very bizarrely 254 00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:31,380 I felt directly that it was some kind of 255 00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:32,880 connection to Men In Black because I was 256 00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:35,600 so focused on it at the at the moment 257 00:12:44,110 --> 00:12:39,660 and a while later I I was thinking about 258 00:12:49,730 --> 00:12:44,120 this this word or name what is it 259 00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:49,740 uh and I I decided to check it with Alan 260 00:12:55,370 --> 00:12:52,800 H Greenfield's uh the secret Cipher of 261 00:12:57,949 --> 00:12:55,380 the youth announce 262 00:13:00,889 --> 00:12:57,959 you know we're gonna go to the occult 263 00:13:04,129 --> 00:13:00,899 route here absolutely yeah and the word 264 00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:04,139 luam it brought it brought only Sinister 265 00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:08,160 words like Shadows or lurking stuff like 266 00:13:12,730 --> 00:13:09,120 that 267 00:13:15,769 --> 00:13:12,740 and I started to research the word 268 00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:15,779 it's a different spelling for Lam I 269 00:13:21,949 --> 00:13:19,200 think which is a kind of a soil Lam is 270 00:13:24,430 --> 00:13:21,959 also the alien entity that that Aleister 271 00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:24,440 Crowley 272 00:13:31,250 --> 00:13:28,920 yeah uh a long time ago so you see you 273 00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:31,260 because you you know this meme with this 274 00:13:36,410 --> 00:13:33,600 guy standing pulling strings between uh 275 00:13:39,050 --> 00:13:36,420 you know a note board uh you know the 276 00:13:42,650 --> 00:13:39,060 conspiracy mean that was me at the time 277 00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:42,660 and I I there was like this connection 278 00:13:49,970 --> 00:13:46,560 between Men In Black Alistair Crowley 279 00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:49,980 um uh my Fascination by Manning black of 280 00:13:57,710 --> 00:13:53,519 course everything kind of just came 281 00:14:01,730 --> 00:13:57,720 came into one there and then I realized 282 00:14:03,889 --> 00:14:01,740 that many black basically has to do with 283 00:14:08,269 --> 00:14:03,899 paranoia because it automatically 284 00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:08,279 creates paranoia uh I mean when we 285 00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:10,860 listen to people who have Mets Men In 286 00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:13,620 Black they're all of them are in a state 287 00:14:19,069 --> 00:14:17,040 of paranoia they they they they just 288 00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:19,079 they don't trust anyone they don't trust 289 00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:21,120 of course the mysterious men they don't 290 00:14:26,690 --> 00:14:23,880 you know they they start connecting dots 291 00:14:30,410 --> 00:14:26,700 that might not even be there and I can 292 00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,420 understand why that frightens people so 293 00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:32,160 much 294 00:14:36,970 --> 00:14:34,980 um on a different note this led to 295 00:14:40,189 --> 00:14:36,980 another bizarre 296 00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,199 synchronicity because that was a couple 297 00:14:45,889 --> 00:14:43,199 of months later and uh uh a friend sent 298 00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:45,899 me a photo from Norway and it was these 299 00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:49,260 big tracks in the snow Footprints and I 300 00:14:56,509 --> 00:14:52,860 was joking oh it's troll it's troll 301 00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:56,519 friends and yeah we laughed about that 302 00:15:01,009 --> 00:14:59,279 um uh a couple of hours later I got an 303 00:15:04,009 --> 00:15:01,019 email from an English production company 304 00:15:08,569 --> 00:15:04,019 who asked if they can use a photo I I 305 00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:08,579 took once off a troll as a paradolia 306 00:15:16,129 --> 00:15:11,760 effect it's a troll so okay weird two 307 00:15:18,769 --> 00:15:16,139 troll things in one day and and in in 308 00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:18,779 the evening I'm out walking and I'm 309 00:15:23,389 --> 00:15:21,420 coming to this exact spot out in the 310 00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:23,399 park where where this man was standing 311 00:15:30,110 --> 00:15:26,639 on that spot was a 312 00:15:33,290 --> 00:15:30,120 wouldn't throw in a carved wooden troll 313 00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:33,300 you know this is standing on the exact 314 00:15:38,090 --> 00:15:34,980 same spot 315 00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:38,100 um so that's like of course now I'm I 316 00:15:42,650 --> 00:15:41,040 sound mad I realize that but it's you 317 00:15:44,590 --> 00:15:42,660 know when you start following the 318 00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:44,600 synchronicities around Men In Black 319 00:15:50,449 --> 00:15:48,240 around the esoteric and UFOs then you 320 00:15:53,689 --> 00:15:50,459 you mean you can disappear forever into 321 00:15:55,790 --> 00:15:53,699 that into the Rabbit Hole uh and I still 322 00:15:57,710 --> 00:15:55,800 think about this guy I still look for 323 00:15:59,870 --> 00:15:57,720 him I still sometimes go and look 324 00:16:03,290 --> 00:15:59,880 through the people is he standing there 325 00:16:05,689 --> 00:16:03,300 uh today is he down in the basement so 326 00:16:08,210 --> 00:16:05,699 yeah it created some kind of paranoia 327 00:16:09,250 --> 00:16:08,220 that still holds on up until today 328 00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:09,260 actually 329 00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:12,720 so of course I had to dive into the 330 00:16:17,569 --> 00:16:14,760 subject of Swedish Men In Black even 331 00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:17,579 more you know to you know to 332 00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:20,940 kind of just make it come full circle I 333 00:16:27,710 --> 00:16:25,440 guess right right wow I that is so 334 00:16:29,689 --> 00:16:27,720 fascinating I first of all I didn't 335 00:16:32,030 --> 00:16:29,699 think we were going to connect trolls in 336 00:16:34,730 --> 00:16:32,040 the Men in Black but I'm so happy that 337 00:16:36,829 --> 00:16:34,740 we've done that Fred that's awesome 338 00:16:38,749 --> 00:16:36,839 um but you bring up this idea of 339 00:16:42,290 --> 00:16:38,759 paranoia and I think you're right that 340 00:16:45,710 --> 00:16:42,300 is kind of the the nature of the Men in 341 00:16:46,850 --> 00:16:45,720 Black phenomenon some figures lurking in 342 00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:46,860 the distance 343 00:16:55,370 --> 00:16:51,720 um either uh you know preceding or 344 00:16:58,430 --> 00:16:55,380 um after a UFO event of some sort or a 345 00:17:01,009 --> 00:16:58,440 event of high strangeness or the 346 00:17:03,889 --> 00:17:01,019 Paranormal they always seem to be around 347 00:17:06,289 --> 00:17:03,899 at least in the lore that we've come to 348 00:17:10,130 --> 00:17:06,299 learn uh both in the United States and 349 00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:10,140 uh possibly even in Sweden so I I love 350 00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:12,780 if you wouldn't mind would you could you 351 00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:15,839 maybe give us a few of the stories from 352 00:17:21,169 --> 00:17:17,880 the article um that you found in in 353 00:17:23,870 --> 00:17:21,179 terms of these Swedish Men In Black if 354 00:17:25,370 --> 00:17:23,880 we do want to call them that yeah we 355 00:17:27,530 --> 00:17:25,380 have we have one that's actually 356 00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:27,540 connected to Loch Ness and the Loch Ness 357 00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:32,220 monster oh my gosh yeah yeah it was in 358 00:17:39,710 --> 00:17:36,480 in August I think 1971 and young 359 00:17:41,930 --> 00:17:39,720 journalist young Wilson very was sent to 360 00:17:45,710 --> 00:17:41,940 Loch Ness by the magazine he was working 361 00:17:48,650 --> 00:17:45,720 for lectier which was a men's magazine 362 00:17:50,570 --> 00:17:48,660 to write about the monster 363 00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:50,580 um and when he was you know lurking 364 00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:53,760 around there he he go into the forest 365 00:17:59,150 --> 00:17:56,640 and suddenly he sees this UFO a UFO 366 00:18:01,970 --> 00:17:59,160 shaped like an iron basically you know 367 00:18:05,090 --> 00:18:01,980 they want to make your clothes flat I 368 00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:05,100 don't you call it iron yeah yeah uh and 369 00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:07,320 he sees three individuals three beings 370 00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:08,480 outside 371 00:18:13,010 --> 00:18:11,100 uh in in what he thinks looks like 372 00:18:14,750 --> 00:18:13,020 diving suits which is interesting 373 00:18:17,630 --> 00:18:14,760 because diving suits is something that 374 00:18:20,990 --> 00:18:17,640 comes back into his in the in the 375 00:18:24,529 --> 00:18:21,000 mythology he was creating basically 376 00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:24,539 so these beings they fly away in their 377 00:18:29,630 --> 00:18:28,080 iron UFO and he goes home he writes the 378 00:18:32,330 --> 00:18:29,640 article about the Loch Ness monster 379 00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:32,340 doesn't mention the the the the the 380 00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:36,000 aliens or UFO or anything like that but 381 00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:40,320 not long after he starts to have 382 00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:44,160 uh Uninvited visitors to his house in 383 00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:47,160 muttala he they were knocking on his 384 00:18:53,049 --> 00:18:50,100 door they were calling him threatening 385 00:18:56,690 --> 00:18:53,059 him not to to write and talk about this 386 00:18:59,570 --> 00:18:56,700 he saw a big black figure in the in the 387 00:19:01,909 --> 00:18:59,580 garden lurking around and this scared 388 00:19:06,049 --> 00:19:01,919 him so much that he basically refused to 389 00:19:10,130 --> 00:19:06,059 talk about the UFO slash Alien Part uh 390 00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:10,140 off the Loch Ness story uh one one need 391 00:19:18,650 --> 00:19:14,400 to keep in mind that janovic was 392 00:19:21,529 --> 00:19:18,660 yeah I I if if I'm going to be kind you 393 00:19:26,270 --> 00:19:21,539 you you you couldn't trust him always he 394 00:19:30,049 --> 00:19:26,280 he he had a tendency to uh to make 395 00:19:32,510 --> 00:19:30,059 things up to just make it spicier 396 00:19:35,210 --> 00:19:32,520 um he claimed to have taken photos of 397 00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:35,220 this UFO in Loch Ness and he in Flying 398 00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:37,620 Saucer review he actually shows a photo 399 00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,559 of one of the aliens which shows nothing 400 00:19:44,830 --> 00:19:43,200 at all there's just a force there's 401 00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:44,840 nothing there 402 00:19:51,289 --> 00:19:48,360 but it's it's fascinating I think 403 00:19:55,310 --> 00:19:51,299 because it's so it's it was so connected 404 00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:55,320 to to Loch Ness which also brings forth 405 00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:57,660 another man in Black episode in 406 00:20:02,690 --> 00:20:00,240 connection to that that like uh the 407 00:20:05,330 --> 00:20:02,700 first interview kinda with John 408 00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:05,340 oversonberry was made with by Ted 409 00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:07,919 holiday in 1971 for a flying sorcerer 410 00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:11,760 view or no it was 73. uh 411 00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:13,200 and 412 00:20:21,049 --> 00:20:16,740 that holidays one of many things he's 413 00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:21,059 famous for is that he he he he did a 414 00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:23,520 thing with a priest Reverend umand I 415 00:20:30,890 --> 00:20:26,240 think his name was who tried to exercise 416 00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:30,900 uh the Loch Ness monster the day off he 417 00:20:35,570 --> 00:20:33,000 didn't yeah you know it's a bizarre 418 00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:35,580 story he even exercised the Bermuda 419 00:20:41,150 --> 00:20:37,980 Triangle I heard but I I haven't looked 420 00:20:43,789 --> 00:20:41,160 into it so much okay yeah but the day 421 00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:43,799 after he was the day after exorcism Ted 422 00:20:50,289 --> 00:20:46,500 holiday was out walking nearby the lake 423 00:20:53,570 --> 00:20:50,299 and saw uh suddenly uh Men In Black 424 00:20:55,850 --> 00:20:53,580 staring at him from a distance dressed 425 00:20:57,549 --> 00:20:55,860 in in black leather clothes and he heard 426 00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:57,559 a whistling sound 427 00:21:02,529 --> 00:21:00,960 and then he disappeared so it's a it's a 428 00:21:06,289 --> 00:21:02,539 it's a 429 00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,299 an odd little connection to to the Men 430 00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,880 in Black Mythos even from from that 431 00:21:14,690 --> 00:21:10,559 direction the guy who wrote the article 432 00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:14,700 about the anubisun base experience 433 00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:16,640 uh 434 00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:19,740 later wrote a book called The Phantom 435 00:21:31,549 --> 00:21:28,010 which it's a Swedish book where he 436 00:21:32,450 --> 00:21:31,559 he goes into you know we had a uh we had 437 00:21:44,270 --> 00:21:32,460 a 438 00:21:47,570 --> 00:21:44,280 know we thought these were of course 439 00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:47,580 alien crafts of some kind so in this 440 00:21:54,350 --> 00:21:50,820 book he had a whole chapter on Frogman 441 00:21:56,990 --> 00:21:54,360 in Black which is uh I I never heard 442 00:22:00,970 --> 00:21:57,000 about it before until I read this book 443 00:22:05,210 --> 00:22:00,980 and he had like I think it's like 25 30 444 00:22:08,210 --> 00:22:05,220 accounts of of uh Frogman in Black who 445 00:22:11,149 --> 00:22:08,220 who who who who threatens Witnesses and 446 00:22:15,289 --> 00:22:11,159 behave weirdly often in connection to 447 00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:15,299 strange otherworldly uh submarines or 448 00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:17,039 whatever it is 449 00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:20,159 um so here the diving Suits comes back 450 00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,520 again in in his world because the the 451 00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:25,440 the the the beings that Loch Ness had 452 00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:28,860 that so janui was a strange strange 453 00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:32,880 character not totally pleasant but uh is 454 00:22:39,409 --> 00:22:36,240 someone you in Swedish ufology 455 00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:39,419 if a if a story is too good to be true 456 00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:41,760 it's probably because you can find John 457 00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:44,520 over somewhere in the background uh 458 00:22:50,570 --> 00:22:48,000 spicing it up a little bit or a lot or 459 00:22:53,870 --> 00:22:50,580 totally uh the man was a mystery 460 00:22:56,690 --> 00:22:53,880 absolutely he was a Madman but good 461 00:23:00,289 --> 00:22:56,700 writer uh he kind of reminds me of gray 462 00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:00,299 Barker in the way that he was uh he had 463 00:23:06,830 --> 00:23:03,120 an amazing way of telling stories and 464 00:23:10,130 --> 00:23:06,840 you were never really sure how much he 465 00:23:14,110 --> 00:23:10,140 made up uh gray Barker of course is a 466 00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:14,120 totally different class of but they had 467 00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:17,700 similar properties both these men you 468 00:23:25,549 --> 00:23:20,960 know there were tricksters hoaxers 469 00:23:27,289 --> 00:23:25,559 showmen uh in in one way or or another 470 00:23:30,350 --> 00:23:27,299 at least but you know the frontal 471 00:23:33,770 --> 00:23:30,360 Frogman in Blacks you know he he have so 472 00:23:37,070 --> 00:23:33,780 many that I've I think he actually have 473 00:23:38,690 --> 00:23:37,080 some real accounts and maybe he saw what 474 00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:38,700 he he thought 475 00:23:44,330 --> 00:23:41,400 they would be in them you know maybe it 476 00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:44,340 was you know I mean 477 00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:47,520 in in the in the stuff he he wrote uh 478 00:23:53,450 --> 00:23:50,100 all these frogmen what you can see of 479 00:23:56,950 --> 00:23:53,460 them they have often a darker complexion 480 00:23:59,990 --> 00:23:56,960 in the skin they have you know a bit 481 00:24:02,270 --> 00:24:00,000 exotic look you know in Sweden if 482 00:24:04,370 --> 00:24:02,280 everything was you know everything that 483 00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:04,380 didn't look Swedish was looked 484 00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,149 there was one man he was out walking 485 00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:13,919 with his collie and then he encountered 486 00:24:19,789 --> 00:24:17,100 like six or seven of these frogmen 487 00:24:23,330 --> 00:24:19,799 coming walking towards him and they kind 488 00:24:25,610 --> 00:24:23,340 of hypnotized him uh so he was frozen he 489 00:24:27,950 --> 00:24:25,620 was paralyzed while they were walking 490 00:24:31,310 --> 00:24:27,960 past him which kind of reminds me of a 491 00:24:33,470 --> 00:24:31,320 couple of older gnome observations from 492 00:24:35,630 --> 00:24:33,480 Sweden where where the width is also 493 00:24:37,490 --> 00:24:35,640 kind of got paralyzed while they were 494 00:24:38,090 --> 00:24:37,500 marching by him 495 00:24:41,270 --> 00:24:38,100 um 496 00:24:43,730 --> 00:24:41,280 another Frogman he wasn't dressed in a 497 00:24:46,909 --> 00:24:43,740 diving suit at the time but he and his 498 00:24:50,090 --> 00:24:46,919 colleague was in an old-fashioned car of 499 00:24:51,770 --> 00:24:50,100 course stopped by the witness and asked 500 00:24:53,630 --> 00:24:51,780 for the direction to the harbor or 501 00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:53,640 something like that and then he started 502 00:25:00,409 --> 00:24:56,520 asking questions like what's your time 503 00:25:02,510 --> 00:25:00,419 cycle you know weird questions out of 504 00:25:05,210 --> 00:25:02,520 nowhere and and of course the witness 505 00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:05,220 later saw this guy and his calling and a 506 00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:07,500 couple of other frogmen down by the 507 00:25:14,029 --> 00:25:10,200 water entering a submarine 508 00:25:15,549 --> 00:25:14,039 um these are weird stories but like I 509 00:25:18,169 --> 00:25:15,559 said we don't know but you never know 510 00:25:21,230 --> 00:25:18,179 what what's the truth in them what's 511 00:25:23,330 --> 00:25:21,240 what's what have he added and what have 512 00:25:26,510 --> 00:25:23,340 he totally made up and what's the truth 513 00:25:30,289 --> 00:25:26,520 you know is there a truth you know 514 00:25:32,690 --> 00:25:30,299 wow well you bring up so many little 515 00:25:35,390 --> 00:25:32,700 Avenues we could go down with all of 516 00:25:37,850 --> 00:25:35,400 this but when you said you know it kind 517 00:25:41,810 --> 00:25:37,860 of reminded you of something like gray 518 00:25:44,029 --> 00:25:41,820 Barker or um even Albert K Bender sort 519 00:25:45,789 --> 00:25:44,039 of these these gentlemen in the United 520 00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:45,799 States who kind of 521 00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:49,140 birthed this mythology of the Men in 522 00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:50,400 Black 523 00:25:56,990 --> 00:25:53,520 um you know that there have been a lot 524 00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:57,000 of historians or let's say um 525 00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:00,480 folklorists have traced it back to the 526 00:26:06,250 --> 00:26:04,200 dawn of time basically you know if you 527 00:26:10,370 --> 00:26:06,260 want to take it down different routes of 528 00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:10,380 religion and the Occult and Men In Black 529 00:26:17,330 --> 00:26:13,440 and and dark figures uh but it really 530 00:26:20,570 --> 00:26:17,340 did kind of start I think with the work 531 00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:20,580 of people like Albert K bender and Greg 532 00:26:27,470 --> 00:26:24,240 Barker and even the kind of uh 533 00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:27,480 sordid case of Mori island in the United 534 00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:30,480 States so I guess my question for you 535 00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:34,320 Fred is do you see any connections or 536 00:26:39,769 --> 00:26:37,200 patterns between what you are able to 537 00:26:42,830 --> 00:26:39,779 dig up in Sweden with these men in black 538 00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:42,840 cases and what was reported in the 539 00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:46,799 United States the tricksterist nature is 540 00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:49,440 what stands out for me personally like 541 00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:52,320 you said um we hear that a lot in the 542 00:26:56,990 --> 00:26:54,720 cases in the United States but yeah were 543 00:26:59,149 --> 00:26:57,000 you able to find any patterns or 544 00:27:06,130 --> 00:26:59,159 connections between what's going on 545 00:27:10,610 --> 00:27:08,210 what's up somewhere in the skies 546 00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:10,620 listeners Ryan here just wanted to give 547 00:27:15,649 --> 00:27:12,480 a quick shout out to our brand new 548 00:27:21,049 --> 00:27:15,659 patreon supporters it's special thanks 549 00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:21,059 to Matthew K Josh R Jen Dean Jiminy C 550 00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:27,360 Laura N R Monica F Nathan p Paul P UFO 551 00:27:38,769 --> 00:27:33,600 nut Deborah B Maureen n Kevin P Larry s 552 00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:38,779 otil b Chris W coriander G Russ dalen 553 00:27:47,169 --> 00:27:44,880 Sergio V Tad D and Timothy S I hope you 554 00:27:50,570 --> 00:27:47,179 enjoy your Early Access to episodes 555 00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:50,580 bonus episodes and content and priority 556 00:27:55,549 --> 00:27:53,039 to ask our guests your listener 557 00:27:58,730 --> 00:27:55,559 questions I couldn't do the show without 558 00:28:03,350 --> 00:27:58,740 your support so again my sincere thanks 559 00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:03,360 to all of you past present and future if 560 00:28:08,350 --> 00:28:05,039 you'd like to help support somewhere in 561 00:28:12,169 --> 00:28:08,360 the skies today visit patreon.com 562 00:28:18,590 --> 00:28:12,179 somewhere Skies keep looking up and 563 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,730 thank you 564 00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:25,210 well I I think in those cases I've found 565 00:28:33,890 --> 00:28:29,520 uh all of them basically have some kind 566 00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:33,900 of uh paranormal paranormal part you 567 00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:37,260 know in in you know this case he had a 568 00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:40,860 poltergeist phenomena uh in in in in in 569 00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:44,460 his home after uh the Men in Black 570 00:28:52,669 --> 00:28:48,480 contacted him uh another guy uh very 571 00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:52,679 beloved man called Bevan Bevan bertelsen 572 00:28:58,909 --> 00:28:56,159 who was the the chairman of ufoswaria 573 00:29:03,590 --> 00:28:58,919 for two years during the 70s he had his 574 00:29:07,549 --> 00:29:03,600 own experience in 1973 where a strange 575 00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:07,559 man showed up that this was after a UFO 576 00:29:12,730 --> 00:29:10,260 observation he had his first one and 577 00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:12,740 this man showed up at his face 578 00:29:19,010 --> 00:29:16,320 this man showed up at his house asked a 579 00:29:21,649 --> 00:29:19,020 couple of weird questions walked out on 580 00:29:24,289 --> 00:29:21,659 this tiny Road outside this country how 581 00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:24,299 and just disappeared so you have this 582 00:29:31,010 --> 00:29:27,120 these figures this this these characters 583 00:29:34,430 --> 00:29:31,020 who just kind of like ghosts you know 584 00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:34,440 like yeah shadow people they just appear 585 00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:37,919 and disappear uh I mean I remember in 586 00:29:44,029 --> 00:29:41,120 the Albert K Bender case that he he 587 00:29:45,409 --> 00:29:44,039 experienced what you could describe as 588 00:29:48,010 --> 00:29:45,419 some kind of 589 00:29:50,810 --> 00:29:48,020 Poltergeist phenomena you know 590 00:29:53,149 --> 00:29:50,820 knockings and bangings on the doors and 591 00:29:56,090 --> 00:29:53,159 walls and similar things which is of 592 00:29:59,570 --> 00:29:56,100 course deeply connected to to to ghostly 593 00:30:02,210 --> 00:29:59,580 experiences also uh and I mean the the 594 00:30:03,769 --> 00:30:02,220 the the the look at least in the the 595 00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:03,779 look of the man at least in the case of 596 00:30:09,889 --> 00:30:06,840 John UVA and and Bevan is very 597 00:30:11,690 --> 00:30:09,899 traditionally uh Men In Black they they 598 00:30:15,169 --> 00:30:11,700 don't have any diving suits on in in 599 00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:15,179 those cases of course uh so yeah I mean 600 00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:19,200 absolutely uh it's it's a mythology that 601 00:30:25,549 --> 00:30:22,799 that have kinda 602 00:30:29,630 --> 00:30:25,559 like you said it has spread over the 603 00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:29,640 world uh the the our modern view on men 604 00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:33,840 in black uh it's kinda 605 00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:37,260 kind of it's not weird but it's you know 606 00:30:41,450 --> 00:30:39,360 I like I like it when it goes really 607 00:30:43,490 --> 00:30:41,460 strange I find it a bit boring when 608 00:30:46,610 --> 00:30:43,500 there's Men In Black who just looks like 609 00:30:49,490 --> 00:30:46,620 uh you know some militarist or they look 610 00:30:51,649 --> 00:30:49,500 like some boring government types I want 611 00:30:54,830 --> 00:30:51,659 them to have uh black suits 612 00:30:57,950 --> 00:30:54,840 old-fashioned suits hats old cars 613 00:31:00,830 --> 00:30:57,960 similar things like that uh what's 614 00:31:03,970 --> 00:31:00,840 missing today I'd say is that the the 615 00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:03,980 madness the bizareness of for example 616 00:31:09,950 --> 00:31:07,919 Albert K Benders uh experiences I mean 617 00:31:13,070 --> 00:31:09,960 he had these three men who came floating 618 00:31:16,490 --> 00:31:13,080 in his bedroom and they took him to 619 00:31:17,529 --> 00:31:16,500 Antarctica and you had this strong smell 620 00:31:21,049 --> 00:31:17,539 of 621 00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:21,059 sulfur uh around them and they were like 622 00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:24,480 more like I think I compare compared it 623 00:31:34,610 --> 00:31:28,980 to a sleep paralysis experience or a DMT 624 00:31:37,850 --> 00:31:34,620 trip uh and you know if if I mean I I 625 00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:37,860 after rereading his book uh flying 626 00:31:44,210 --> 00:31:41,039 sauces and the three men I I I I really 627 00:31:46,970 --> 00:31:44,220 think he experienced something and if it 628 00:31:50,210 --> 00:31:46,980 had a natural explanation I would say it 629 00:31:52,430 --> 00:31:50,220 was sleep paralysis in combination with 630 00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:52,440 paranoia maybe there was government 631 00:31:58,010 --> 00:31:55,919 types actually uh contacting him because 632 00:31:59,389 --> 00:31:58,020 I mean it was a huge subject here in the 633 00:32:01,970 --> 00:31:59,399 60s 634 00:32:06,110 --> 00:32:01,980 um so I think you know it's it's a it's 635 00:32:08,210 --> 00:32:06,120 a mix of of of all these things and they 636 00:32:11,149 --> 00:32:08,220 have 637 00:32:13,970 --> 00:32:11,159 I I think why they I'm sorry I'm jumping 638 00:32:16,370 --> 00:32:13,980 here a bit I think that they're not so 639 00:32:19,070 --> 00:32:16,380 common in Sweden because we don't have 640 00:32:23,149 --> 00:32:19,080 the same tradition of secrecy as you 641 00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:23,159 have in the United States in Sweden uh 642 00:32:29,149 --> 00:32:26,340 uh exaggerating a little bit but we're a 643 00:32:32,029 --> 00:32:29,159 very very open country you can get 644 00:32:33,950 --> 00:32:32,039 access to a lot of material you can pick 645 00:32:37,370 --> 00:32:33,960 up the phone and talk directly to 646 00:32:40,190 --> 00:32:37,380 someone still to a certain degree and I 647 00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:40,200 I think that the the secretness the 648 00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:43,140 secrecy of the United States and the the 649 00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:47,039 the the government style uh the United 650 00:32:50,529 --> 00:32:49,260 States have kinda 651 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:50,539 the 652 00:32:55,549 --> 00:32:54,010 more 653 00:32:58,610 --> 00:32:55,559 [Music] 654 00:33:01,370 --> 00:32:58,620 um yeah he here is like 655 00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:01,380 it's it's a different culture you know 656 00:33:05,870 --> 00:33:03,360 it's a very very different culture we 657 00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:05,880 have and had I mean these things I've 658 00:33:10,430 --> 00:33:08,159 told you about happen in the 70s and it 659 00:33:12,310 --> 00:33:10,440 was a way more innocent time in Sweden 660 00:33:17,210 --> 00:33:12,320 than it is now 661 00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:17,220 uh so so I I 662 00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:19,440 to have these things happen at the time 663 00:33:25,610 --> 00:33:23,039 I would say is is very unique and today 664 00:33:28,370 --> 00:33:25,620 I'm surprised that we don't have more of 665 00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:28,380 these cases in modern times uh here in 666 00:33:34,430 --> 00:33:30,960 Sweden though because times have changed 667 00:33:37,009 --> 00:33:34,440 and and and we have a different kind of 668 00:33:40,490 --> 00:33:37,019 attitude there's there is more paranoia 669 00:33:42,610 --> 00:33:40,500 so I'm surprised that that hasn't you 670 00:33:45,889 --> 00:33:42,620 know 671 00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:45,899 created basically men in blacks out 672 00:33:49,549 --> 00:33:47,820 there but then again with Sweden it's a 673 00:33:50,990 --> 00:33:49,559 small country you know 674 00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:51,000 um I don't know if that was a good 675 00:33:56,990 --> 00:33:53,700 answer I feel I'm rambling on here no no 676 00:33:59,630 --> 00:33:57,000 no you it's a fantastic answer you bring 677 00:34:03,710 --> 00:33:59,640 up a lot of good points of especially 678 00:34:07,370 --> 00:34:03,720 the idea of secrecy I mean when you know 679 00:34:10,490 --> 00:34:07,380 within the United States uh and even in 680 00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:10,500 you know I I would say the the UK as 681 00:34:15,889 --> 00:34:13,740 well at times when your governments are 682 00:34:18,829 --> 00:34:15,899 not being transparent with the people 683 00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:18,839 that is when you start to create your 684 00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:21,679 own truths create your own uh 685 00:34:27,470 --> 00:34:24,960 mythologies of what's occurring and I 686 00:34:29,629 --> 00:34:27,480 think you're right I think you know the 687 00:34:32,930 --> 00:34:29,639 reason you may not find a lot of cases 688 00:34:36,109 --> 00:34:32,940 like that in Sweden is because of that 689 00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:36,119 very reason you have a government who's 690 00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:39,300 willing to tell the public what's going 691 00:34:45,470 --> 00:34:42,720 on and uh and and there's say trust 692 00:34:47,149 --> 00:34:45,480 there I I feel like in the United States 693 00:34:49,790 --> 00:34:47,159 there's no trust in government 694 00:34:54,530 --> 00:34:49,800 whatsoever and we're seeing that play 695 00:34:57,650 --> 00:34:54,540 out right now where our military are 696 00:35:01,150 --> 00:34:57,660 shooting down unidentified objects in 697 00:35:06,410 --> 00:35:01,160 the sky and not telling us what they are 698 00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:06,420 so what happens either one extreme is 699 00:35:13,010 --> 00:35:10,020 that they're all surveillance equipment 700 00:35:16,190 --> 00:35:13,020 from a rival Nation or the other extreme 701 00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:16,200 they're aliens from Zeta reticuli and 702 00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:19,680 this is Roswell all over again so I 703 00:35:26,810 --> 00:35:21,599 think you're right there's 704 00:35:30,290 --> 00:35:26,820 there's a gap between the knowing and 705 00:35:33,530 --> 00:35:30,300 not knowing that I think creates these 706 00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:33,540 stories of uh Men In Black what what 707 00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:35,520 they are who they are where they come 708 00:35:38,089 --> 00:35:36,480 from 709 00:35:40,609 --> 00:35:38,099 um and that's not to say they're not 710 00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:40,619 real and that this phenomenon is not 711 00:35:47,450 --> 00:35:44,160 real uh but a lot of it probably could 712 00:35:50,450 --> 00:35:47,460 be attributed to what we want it to be 713 00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:50,460 what we imagine it could be and then 714 00:35:56,329 --> 00:35:54,000 tying in to UFO sightings uh you know 715 00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:56,339 once you have a UFO sighting a lot of 716 00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:57,599 people are like oh my god I've heard 717 00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,000 that the Men in Black come in silence 718 00:36:05,630 --> 00:36:02,400 you after you see these things and 719 00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:05,640 that's when the paranoia starts and 720 00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:07,800 everyone around you is a little more 721 00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:10,320 suspicious and might be and then in 722 00:36:15,470 --> 00:36:13,440 black or a woman in black even uh so 723 00:36:17,089 --> 00:36:15,480 it's interesting I I think you bring up 724 00:36:21,490 --> 00:36:17,099 a lot of good points there 725 00:36:24,770 --> 00:36:21,500 I also I also believe that a UFO 726 00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:24,780 observation is by itself something so 727 00:36:30,050 --> 00:36:28,560 unique uh here in Sweden I I must admit 728 00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:30,060 nowadays we don't have so many 729 00:36:34,849 --> 00:36:32,160 observations you know as you know if you 730 00:36:37,130 --> 00:36:34,859 go back to the 60s and 70s and 80s where 731 00:36:40,130 --> 00:36:37,140 you had tons of them and nowadays you 732 00:36:43,310 --> 00:36:40,140 don't have so much but I can imagine and 733 00:36:45,170 --> 00:36:43,320 I I I never seen a UFO you know I've 734 00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:45,180 seen dots in the sky and everything but 735 00:36:51,290 --> 00:36:48,240 you know it could be something else uh I 736 00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:51,300 think just by by seeing something like 737 00:36:59,150 --> 00:36:55,200 that your your your mind goes on high 738 00:37:01,550 --> 00:36:59,160 alert to everything that looks and feels 739 00:37:03,530 --> 00:37:01,560 strange you know 740 00:37:08,290 --> 00:37:03,540 um it's uh 741 00:37:11,329 --> 00:37:08,300 it's um I can make uh this is quite 742 00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:11,339 wild comparison I don't know if I should 743 00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:15,900 do it here actually uh do it do it it's 744 00:37:20,109 --> 00:37:18,000 very easy it's now now we're going into 745 00:37:24,890 --> 00:37:20,119 Vu here you know 746 00:37:28,130 --> 00:37:24,900 uh there was uh some years ago I I 747 00:37:30,890 --> 00:37:28,140 did a lot of mushroom psychedelics 748 00:37:33,410 --> 00:37:30,900 um and there was like a year I had you 749 00:37:34,609 --> 00:37:33,420 know over one summer I did mushrooms 750 00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:34,619 three times 751 00:37:43,730 --> 00:37:41,040 the same man 752 00:37:47,390 --> 00:37:43,740 and he's an odd looking man he's short 753 00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:47,400 he's fat he have his his uh his um 754 00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:50,640 clothes doesn't fit they're too big and 755 00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:53,040 every time he looked at me and yeah you 756 00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:55,740 can say okay the guys on mushrooms or he 757 00:38:01,849 --> 00:37:57,119 hallucinated but no I wasn't 758 00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:01,859 hallucinating uh but my my senses my my 759 00:38:07,970 --> 00:38:04,560 mind was on high alert for everything 760 00:38:11,569 --> 00:38:07,980 around me and I probably just noticed 761 00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:11,579 this guy uh each time I mean I live in a 762 00:38:18,770 --> 00:38:15,839 pretty small community uh so of course 763 00:38:22,130 --> 00:38:18,780 with his odd looks his strange Behavior 764 00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:22,140 Behavior he he just stood out even more 765 00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:24,960 than he probably would in in in in a way 766 00:38:32,030 --> 00:38:28,200 without mushrooms I say but that 767 00:38:34,190 --> 00:38:32,040 reminded me of how when you you're uh 768 00:38:37,490 --> 00:38:34,200 when you're into something unique 769 00:38:41,089 --> 00:38:37,500 something odd something out of the 770 00:38:45,650 --> 00:38:41,099 ordinary how you tend to see stuff that 771 00:38:47,810 --> 00:38:45,660 not always is there I have a weirder 772 00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:47,820 theory about that is that the the 773 00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:51,480 phenomena itself used this guy as a kind 774 00:38:58,430 --> 00:38:55,380 of proxy uh so uh the phenomena showed 775 00:39:00,430 --> 00:38:58,440 itself to me as him he was just an 776 00:39:02,930 --> 00:39:00,440 innocent bystander he was just a weird 777 00:39:06,170 --> 00:39:02,940 standing there fishing outside in nature 778 00:39:09,050 --> 00:39:06,180 looked like a gnome basically and he 779 00:39:11,390 --> 00:39:09,060 ended up being my connection to to 780 00:39:13,730 --> 00:39:11,400 Nature to the phenomena to the weirdness 781 00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:13,740 to the high strangeness and I think 782 00:39:18,349 --> 00:39:16,079 that's the case in in a lot of 783 00:39:19,550 --> 00:39:18,359 encounters with the Men in Black that 784 00:39:21,230 --> 00:39:19,560 you have seen something you have 785 00:39:23,630 --> 00:39:21,240 experienced something and you have no 786 00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:23,640 idea what it is everything is weird your 787 00:39:29,810 --> 00:39:26,880 reality is up and suddenly these 788 00:39:32,270 --> 00:39:29,820 two guys or three guys or one guy or 789 00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:32,280 women come and they talk to you and you 790 00:39:37,310 --> 00:39:35,040 feel that this is out of the order this 791 00:39:39,650 --> 00:39:37,320 is something that usually doesn't happen 792 00:39:42,050 --> 00:39:39,660 even if you know maybe there's some 793 00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:42,060 innocent people asking questions you 794 00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:43,920 know everything turns weirder 795 00:39:48,829 --> 00:39:46,560 I don't know if that made sense but I 796 00:39:53,329 --> 00:39:48,839 could be a bit abstract sometimes 797 00:39:57,410 --> 00:39:53,339 no I love that this idea that it can 798 00:39:59,950 --> 00:39:57,420 bring in a sense of of high strangeness 799 00:40:03,770 --> 00:39:59,960 and and everything starts to become 800 00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:03,780 bizarre in this simple person now 801 00:40:09,530 --> 00:40:06,540 becomes like the center of a story they 802 00:40:12,829 --> 00:40:09,540 never wanted to be written into yeah I I 803 00:40:14,990 --> 00:40:12,839 find that fascinating yeah like a symbol 804 00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,000 a symbol for for high experience some 805 00:40:19,250 --> 00:40:17,520 men in black is for me at least strong 806 00:40:19,970 --> 00:40:19,260 symbol for his friendships because you 807 00:40:22,250 --> 00:40:19,980 know 808 00:40:25,550 --> 00:40:22,260 something weird happens man in Black 809 00:40:27,770 --> 00:40:25,560 shows up you know it's been been like 810 00:40:32,450 --> 00:40:27,780 that constantly obviously Through The 811 00:40:34,250 --> 00:40:32,460 Years you know uh so but you know it 812 00:40:36,109 --> 00:40:34,260 could be anything I don't know but I 813 00:40:39,710 --> 00:40:36,119 find it very fascinating I find it so 814 00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,720 fascinating it is well let's let's go 815 00:40:44,270 --> 00:40:41,760 there in terms of it could be anything 816 00:40:46,970 --> 00:40:44,280 because you actually wrote another 817 00:40:48,890 --> 00:40:46,980 article where you theorized about what 818 00:40:51,170 --> 00:40:48,900 the Men in Black could possibly be we 819 00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:51,180 touched on that right now a little bit 820 00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:53,760 but what other theories do you think 821 00:40:58,849 --> 00:40:56,400 could be behind this you know I I for so 822 00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:58,859 long I thought these were just members 823 00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:01,200 of the government coming out to silence 824 00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:05,520 UFO Witnesses but then you hear the high 825 00:41:09,770 --> 00:41:07,440 strangeness aspect to a lot of these 826 00:41:13,310 --> 00:41:09,780 cases and it doesn't seem like we're 827 00:41:16,609 --> 00:41:13,320 dealing with just you know a hired U.S 828 00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:16,619 Air Force person or or someone in the 829 00:41:22,130 --> 00:41:19,560 CIA or something if we're gonna keep it 830 00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:22,140 in the United States it seems to be a 831 00:41:26,569 --> 00:41:24,240 lot weirder and like you said a lot more 832 00:41:29,089 --> 00:41:26,579 bizarre so what are some of those 833 00:41:30,650 --> 00:41:29,099 theories Fred that you kind of pose in 834 00:41:32,810 --> 00:41:30,660 terms of what the Men in Black the 835 00:41:33,710 --> 00:41:32,820 Swedish Men In Black even could possibly 836 00:41:35,569 --> 00:41:33,720 be 837 00:41:38,930 --> 00:41:35,579 well it's like you said it's just 838 00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,940 theories I'm I I it's a I find Men In 839 00:41:43,069 --> 00:41:40,560 Black to be an interesting thought 840 00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:43,079 experiment you know just the presence of 841 00:41:47,630 --> 00:41:46,079 of these characters and and that made me 842 00:41:50,450 --> 00:41:47,640 me think 843 00:41:53,450 --> 00:41:50,460 um there is a theory that we're all 844 00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,460 aware of I don't agree with it that 845 00:41:58,609 --> 00:41:55,680 we're living in assimilation you know 846 00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:58,619 everything around us is created by 847 00:42:03,230 --> 00:42:00,960 a computer or aliens or whatever 848 00:42:05,650 --> 00:42:03,240 something have created us and we're just 849 00:42:10,490 --> 00:42:05,660 running around their poor poor suckers 850 00:42:12,050 --> 00:42:10,500 and so maybe the Men in Black are kind 851 00:42:16,250 --> 00:42:12,060 of like a virus 852 00:42:19,250 --> 00:42:16,260 like a virus sent in programmed by 853 00:42:21,470 --> 00:42:19,260 whoever's behind all of this to check up 854 00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:21,480 on us once but there's a glitch in The 855 00:42:25,310 --> 00:42:22,880 Matrix 856 00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:25,320 like a UFO or Big Foot or whatever 857 00:42:30,050 --> 00:42:27,839 whatever these these viruses or these 858 00:42:33,470 --> 00:42:30,060 programs you can say comes you know 859 00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:33,480 sneaking around asking questions and 860 00:42:38,089 --> 00:42:35,400 they're they're not like us because 861 00:42:40,250 --> 00:42:38,099 they're they're programmed to look like 862 00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:40,260 us but they they're not perfect they're 863 00:42:48,410 --> 00:42:43,200 weirder they're more unnatural somehow 864 00:42:52,910 --> 00:42:48,420 and and so that's one hypothesis I would 865 00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:52,920 say more than a theory uh 866 00:42:59,809 --> 00:42:56,040 there there's also this thing that maybe 867 00:43:03,470 --> 00:42:59,819 we're not visited by aliens at all but 868 00:43:05,390 --> 00:43:03,480 what were visited uh by is is probes I 869 00:43:08,990 --> 00:43:05,400 mean we have something called the van 870 00:43:12,410 --> 00:43:09,000 Neumann Pro probe you know probe sent to 871 00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:12,420 Earth to explore check around so maybe 872 00:43:18,290 --> 00:43:15,359 the Men in Black are kinda some kind of 873 00:43:21,050 --> 00:43:18,300 robotic or Android versions of that 874 00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:21,060 probe they send them in you know like a 875 00:43:26,329 --> 00:43:23,520 bird watcher or some you know they they 876 00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:26,339 dress like a tree or a bush or something 877 00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:29,700 and try to get closer to the birds or 878 00:43:34,609 --> 00:43:32,460 other animals so maybe that's what the 879 00:43:37,609 --> 00:43:34,619 Men in Black is you know they kind of 880 00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:37,619 they they just made to look like us to 881 00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:40,560 sneak around uh but we're you know 882 00:43:44,990 --> 00:43:43,200 they're they're they're not organic at 883 00:43:47,809 --> 00:43:45,000 all I mean there's 884 00:43:51,410 --> 00:43:47,819 many many witnesses have described them 885 00:43:53,870 --> 00:43:51,420 as robotic in in movements you know with 886 00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:53,880 the plastic faces you know this is you 887 00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:57,680 know obviously makeup uh on top of of 888 00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:00,960 their features uh I remember someone 889 00:44:05,329 --> 00:44:03,060 mentioned that it looked like he didn't 890 00:44:07,730 --> 00:44:05,339 have any lips but the the lips were 891 00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:07,740 painted by lip with lipstick you know 892 00:44:13,329 --> 00:44:09,780 it's like what is this 893 00:44:18,410 --> 00:44:13,339 um so so that's one idea 894 00:44:20,349 --> 00:44:18,420 uh if we're gonna go even more here uh I 895 00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:20,359 feel and I'm 896 00:44:26,990 --> 00:44:23,760 semi-serious about this that 897 00:44:30,410 --> 00:44:27,000 you can say that the Men in Black are 898 00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:30,420 our manifestations or or thought 899 00:44:36,170 --> 00:44:34,800 Creations by Humanity's own paranoia 900 00:44:37,130 --> 00:44:36,180 you know 901 00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:37,140 um 902 00:44:44,210 --> 00:44:39,200 you know if you have the the the the 903 00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:44,220 collective uh unhappiness paranoia which 904 00:44:51,790 --> 00:44:48,000 I I I believe would create such a some 905 00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:51,800 kind of strong energy you know this 906 00:44:58,430 --> 00:44:55,440 negativity this hopelessness this 907 00:45:00,349 --> 00:44:58,440 paranoia because the world it is what it 908 00:45:04,130 --> 00:45:00,359 is and has been like that for a number 909 00:45:05,630 --> 00:45:04,140 of years and and that alone it's like a 910 00:45:07,250 --> 00:45:05,640 tulupa I don't want to use the word 911 00:45:08,990 --> 00:45:07,260 tulpa someone wrote the other day that 912 00:45:10,430 --> 00:45:09,000 they're so tired of hearing about tulpas 913 00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:10,440 but I'm saying it here it could be a 914 00:45:14,589 --> 00:45:12,079 tool 915 00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:14,599 so you can relieve it guys 916 00:45:19,309 --> 00:45:16,160 yeah 917 00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:19,319 so they created from they created by us 918 00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:24,960 our Collective angst anxiety you know uh 919 00:45:30,650 --> 00:45:28,319 and this is like I mean I don't want to 920 00:45:33,170 --> 00:45:30,660 go political but I also feel that 921 00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:33,180 some of these political characters we 922 00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:36,319 have are kinda the essence the the 923 00:45:42,890 --> 00:45:40,079 compressed unhappiness and paranoia and 924 00:45:45,950 --> 00:45:42,900 greed and and everything of of mankind 925 00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:45,960 itself and that generates a certain form 926 00:45:50,690 --> 00:45:48,960 of characters not necessarily in a Vuvu 927 00:45:53,390 --> 00:45:50,700 style but they kind of just being 928 00:45:57,770 --> 00:45:53,400 naturally pushed in front and suddenly 929 00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:57,780 we have a Madman as uh as a leader you 930 00:46:02,569 --> 00:46:00,000 know as a you know in in the government 931 00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:02,579 or whatever you want to call it 932 00:46:07,730 --> 00:46:05,280 um so that's also a little bit a little 933 00:46:10,370 --> 00:46:07,740 take on it at least but all you know 934 00:46:15,370 --> 00:46:10,380 it's I'm just speculating here you know 935 00:46:16,970 --> 00:46:15,380 I'm of course yeah but I'm 936 00:46:20,030 --> 00:46:16,980 this 937 00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:20,040 the Men in Black they're they're like a 938 00:46:25,970 --> 00:46:22,800 they they they are a rabbit hole you 939 00:46:28,849 --> 00:46:25,980 know it's difficult to not crawl into it 940 00:46:31,490 --> 00:46:28,859 you know and and search and turn every 941 00:46:34,130 --> 00:46:31,500 stone and you know pool every route down 942 00:46:38,030 --> 00:46:34,140 there uh there's there's always 943 00:46:41,569 --> 00:46:38,040 something that's you know that sticks to 944 00:46:43,250 --> 00:46:41,579 you sometimes a bit gooey and gluey you 945 00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:43,260 know you can't you know you can't get 946 00:46:48,290 --> 00:46:44,480 rid of it 947 00:46:52,210 --> 00:46:48,300 and and maybe Men In Black are that that 948 00:46:54,430 --> 00:46:52,220 goo that we that we people create 949 00:46:58,250 --> 00:46:54,440 unconsciously I guess 950 00:47:01,730 --> 00:46:58,260 oh wow you're blowing my mind man that's 951 00:47:04,130 --> 00:47:01,740 uh you're right there's so many rabbit 952 00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:04,140 holes we could go down the Men in Black 953 00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:07,440 are the goo you need to you need to coin 954 00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:10,560 that term or what do they say trademark 955 00:47:14,089 --> 00:47:12,480 that term right now 956 00:47:16,190 --> 00:47:14,099 um well 957 00:47:19,309 --> 00:47:16,200 and I want to kind of wrap up our 958 00:47:22,130 --> 00:47:19,319 conversation on Men In Black because I I 959 00:47:24,290 --> 00:47:22,140 also want to just get your uh some of 960 00:47:27,950 --> 00:47:24,300 your favorite Swedish UFO cases I'm 961 00:47:29,390 --> 00:47:27,960 dying to know uh but before we we we end 962 00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:29,400 that um 963 00:47:34,670 --> 00:47:32,160 you mentioned we don't hear a lot about 964 00:47:37,730 --> 00:47:34,680 Men In Black anymore or encounters with 965 00:47:41,210 --> 00:47:37,740 them and we did touch on why that might 966 00:47:45,530 --> 00:47:41,220 be but have you been able to find any 967 00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:45,540 sort of modern day iterations of what 968 00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:48,480 could possibly be interpreted as a Men 969 00:47:54,109 --> 00:47:51,119 In Black encounter anything like that in 970 00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:54,119 like the last 10 years or so even we 971 00:47:59,170 --> 00:47:56,640 always hear about them in decades prior 972 00:48:04,010 --> 00:47:59,180 you mean in in Sweden or internationally 973 00:48:07,730 --> 00:48:04,020 uh I I guess Sweden um specifically 974 00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:07,740 well I I mean I I have one uh but that's 975 00:48:10,569 --> 00:48:09,359 the one we were talking about having on 976 00:48:13,370 --> 00:48:10,579 the patreon 977 00:48:14,569 --> 00:48:13,380 okay all right you guys you heard it 978 00:48:16,430 --> 00:48:14,579 here first 979 00:48:18,670 --> 00:48:16,440 um over on patreon after this 980 00:48:21,890 --> 00:48:18,680 conversation we are going to continue 981 00:48:25,370 --> 00:48:21,900 with Fred over there to hear that story 982 00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:25,380 so good tease good tease there Fred um 983 00:48:29,089 --> 00:48:27,599 we'll we'll we'll save that one for 984 00:48:32,809 --> 00:48:29,099 patreon then 985 00:48:37,130 --> 00:48:32,819 um well let's move on then to your 986 00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:37,140 favorite Swedish UFO cases now um some 987 00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:39,599 of them I'm familiar with but not too 988 00:48:44,809 --> 00:48:42,000 many so I'd like to get your thoughts 989 00:48:48,890 --> 00:48:44,819 and insights on some of the cases that 990 00:48:52,970 --> 00:48:48,900 really uh compel you in in your Homeland 991 00:48:55,010 --> 00:48:52,980 well we have I mean I I would say no you 992 00:48:57,230 --> 00:48:55,020 know I've I've written a lot about it 993 00:49:00,770 --> 00:48:57,240 some of this is not published yet but it 994 00:49:02,990 --> 00:49:00,780 will be uh and I I found so many cases 995 00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:03,000 that I've fallen in love with and I 996 00:49:08,809 --> 00:49:06,000 can't stop looking into even if I if I'm 997 00:49:10,010 --> 00:49:08,819 done with the text I'm continuing to dig 998 00:49:11,870 --> 00:49:10,020 into them because I want to find 999 00:49:15,530 --> 00:49:11,880 something new something more interesting 1000 00:49:21,470 --> 00:49:15,540 and uh I think my absolute favorite one 1001 00:49:26,270 --> 00:49:21,480 is uh in uh a small community of uh 3004 1002 00:49:28,190 --> 00:49:26,280 in 1969 uh in three earning Fair uh it's 1003 00:49:31,309 --> 00:49:28,200 a very very small community lots of 1004 00:49:33,770 --> 00:49:31,319 forests and mountains around a couple of 1005 00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:33,780 lakes it's very peaceful there and they 1006 00:49:37,250 --> 00:49:36,240 have a transmitter station where you 1007 00:49:39,530 --> 00:49:37,260 know 1008 00:49:42,109 --> 00:49:39,540 um signals radio signals and and 1009 00:49:45,230 --> 00:49:42,119 television signals are distributed all 1010 00:49:48,349 --> 00:49:45,240 over Sweden and at that station shall 1011 00:49:52,490 --> 00:49:48,359 nasland worked and on this evening I 1012 00:49:55,250 --> 00:49:52,500 think it was more March 12 1969 he came 1013 00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:55,260 to work around six in the evening and 1014 00:50:02,510 --> 00:49:58,400 you know he made some coffee he read the 1015 00:50:04,910 --> 00:50:02,520 newspaper he checked the equipment and 1016 00:50:08,450 --> 00:50:04,920 suddenly there are all the alarms went 1017 00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:08,460 off you know with you know lamps and 1018 00:50:14,690 --> 00:50:11,520 sounds and you know chaos so he stood up 1019 00:50:16,309 --> 00:50:14,700 but like what's going on here uh and 1020 00:50:17,690 --> 00:50:16,319 then it stopped so he called his 1021 00:50:19,250 --> 00:50:17,700 colleagues and they didn't know anything 1022 00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:19,260 about it 1023 00:50:24,670 --> 00:50:22,079 so you know he leans back continues with 1024 00:50:27,410 --> 00:50:24,680 his newspaper everything is calm again 1025 00:50:30,050 --> 00:50:27,420 uh it's getting darker 1026 00:50:32,750 --> 00:50:30,060 maybe half an hour later he had this 1027 00:50:35,329 --> 00:50:32,760 strong feeling that he needs to go and 1028 00:50:37,550 --> 00:50:35,339 open the door and look outside the 1029 00:50:40,609 --> 00:50:37,560 transmitter station 1030 00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:40,619 and when he do that he sees a huge 1031 00:50:47,329 --> 00:50:44,760 Flying Saucer it's like 150 meters in 1032 00:50:50,809 --> 00:50:47,339 the diameter standing you know wow yeah 1033 00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:50,819 it's it's enormous it covers a whole you 1034 00:50:55,250 --> 00:50:53,520 know deforestation area below the 1035 00:50:58,609 --> 00:50:55,260 transmitter station 1036 00:51:00,170 --> 00:50:58,619 and he's like what the he's just 1037 00:51:01,849 --> 00:51:00,180 looking at it because it's such a 1038 00:51:05,210 --> 00:51:01,859 bizarre sight 1039 00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:05,220 he didn't expect that you know uh yeah 1040 00:51:11,030 --> 00:51:07,260 and the thing is he sees movements also 1041 00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:11,040 it's like a tunnel going into the UFO he 1042 00:51:14,930 --> 00:51:13,200 kind of just described it as some kind 1043 00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:14,940 of almost three-dimensional 1044 00:51:18,829 --> 00:51:17,040 four-dimensional tunnel not you know 1045 00:51:22,670 --> 00:51:18,839 purely material 1046 00:51:25,370 --> 00:51:22,680 and from that tunnel beings came 1047 00:51:28,430 --> 00:51:25,380 and they were moving towards that 1048 00:51:32,990 --> 00:51:28,440 hospital station and he he received a 1049 00:51:36,109 --> 00:51:33,000 message uh in his mind saying let us in 1050 00:51:41,710 --> 00:51:36,119 so he opens the door and he lets in 1051 00:51:44,210 --> 00:51:41,720 maybe 10 11 12 beings shaped like boxes 1052 00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:44,220 like uh 1053 00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:47,760 maybe one meter meter uh in in height 1054 00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:52,319 and the kind of fussy foggy boxes and 1055 00:51:56,809 --> 00:51:54,559 they floats into the transmitter station 1056 00:51:58,549 --> 00:51:56,819 and they kind of checks out the 1057 00:52:01,069 --> 00:51:58,559 equipment and he's just standing there 1058 00:52:01,910 --> 00:52:01,079 he's like a couple of centimeters from 1059 00:52:05,630 --> 00:52:01,920 them 1060 00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:05,640 and he senses that these boxes or what 1061 00:52:09,710 --> 00:52:07,680 you're going to call them are more like 1062 00:52:13,250 --> 00:52:09,720 a shield and that there's some kind of 1063 00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:13,260 intelligence inside of them this goes on 1064 00:52:18,770 --> 00:52:16,140 for like 10 minutes or so and then the 1065 00:52:21,170 --> 00:52:18,780 beings leave they float back into the 1066 00:52:23,930 --> 00:52:21,180 UFO and they fly away 1067 00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:23,940 and he's he's left there alone and the 1068 00:52:27,710 --> 00:52:26,160 first thing he does is he calls the 1069 00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:27,720 police you have a friend there's a a 1070 00:52:32,809 --> 00:52:30,240 police a local policeman that says you 1071 00:52:35,569 --> 00:52:32,819 know can you see something so the the 1072 00:52:37,010 --> 00:52:35,579 the policeman went out on his yard and 1073 00:52:39,890 --> 00:52:37,020 looked in that direction and he didn't 1074 00:52:42,589 --> 00:52:39,900 see anything he called his colleagues in 1075 00:52:44,510 --> 00:52:42,599 a nearby town and you know did use you 1076 00:52:47,870 --> 00:52:44,520 know was there something going on here 1077 00:52:51,730 --> 00:52:47,880 and everyone like No And when he 1078 00:52:54,290 --> 00:52:51,740 explained to them what had happened 1079 00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:54,300 uh they thought he was drunk they 1080 00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:56,880 laughed at him his wife laughed at him 1081 00:53:03,049 --> 00:52:59,280 so he kept quiet about this for like 1082 00:53:07,309 --> 00:53:03,059 three years to or two years 1971 he 1083 00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:07,319 first told about this encounter and for 1084 00:53:11,630 --> 00:53:09,720 as long as he lived he passed away some 1085 00:53:15,170 --> 00:53:11,640 years ago he told the exact same story 1086 00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:15,180 there was no you know you have these UFO 1087 00:53:19,730 --> 00:53:17,280 stories where details are added and 1088 00:53:22,609 --> 00:53:19,740 there's you know getting more and more 1089 00:53:25,849 --> 00:53:22,619 you know spectacular but in his case it 1090 00:53:28,250 --> 00:53:25,859 was like no this happened I have no idea 1091 00:53:30,349 --> 00:53:28,260 what it is but this happened 1092 00:53:32,690 --> 00:53:30,359 um and and I would say what makes this 1093 00:53:35,650 --> 00:53:32,700 convincing is that he made regular phone 1094 00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:35,660 calls to his colleagues before the event 1095 00:53:41,870 --> 00:53:38,400 directly after they went and to to his 1096 00:53:44,809 --> 00:53:41,880 friend the policeman and there was a 1097 00:53:48,349 --> 00:53:44,819 constant Communication in and around 1098 00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:48,359 this incident which makes me feel that 1099 00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:51,839 this he didn't fall asleep he didn't he 1100 00:53:56,290 --> 00:53:54,240 didn't imagine this this was this is 1101 00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:56,300 something else 1102 00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:00,720 in 1977 another man actually encountered 1103 00:54:06,349 --> 00:54:03,599 three beings at almost the same spot 1104 00:54:08,750 --> 00:54:06,359 some kind of short beings with Spades 1105 00:54:13,970 --> 00:54:08,760 they were digging in the ground and they 1106 00:54:16,490 --> 00:54:13,980 had this quite small UFO behind them and 1107 00:54:18,170 --> 00:54:16,500 when investigators came there like a day 1108 00:54:20,089 --> 00:54:18,180 or two after they could actually find 1109 00:54:23,450 --> 00:54:20,099 the traces in the ground of someone 1110 00:54:26,569 --> 00:54:23,460 digging and taking most samples and 1111 00:54:29,210 --> 00:54:26,579 things like that so this this area was 1112 00:54:32,930 --> 00:54:29,220 kind of a hot spot for uh for a number 1113 00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:32,940 of years of weird sightings and strange 1114 00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:36,720 beings so the 300 queer case is 1115 00:54:40,030 --> 00:54:38,880 absolutely one of my favorites it's it's 1116 00:54:45,230 --> 00:54:40,040 so 1117 00:54:47,630 --> 00:54:45,240 about it not hearing a crazy old Swede 1118 00:54:50,690 --> 00:54:47,640 talk about it it's as you can so easily 1119 00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:50,700 imagine how it is out there in nowhere 1120 00:54:55,309 --> 00:54:53,040 by this transmitter station and this 1121 00:54:58,030 --> 00:54:55,319 huge Flying Saucer lands and they're oh 1122 00:55:01,069 --> 00:54:58,040 you know I love it 1123 00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:01,079 have you been out to the site where this 1124 00:55:05,930 --> 00:55:03,839 occurred no I I haven't it's quite far 1125 00:55:07,970 --> 00:55:05,940 away from where I live uh but I'm 1126 00:55:10,970 --> 00:55:07,980 planning to definitely I've been trying 1127 00:55:14,930 --> 00:55:10,980 to pinpoint the exact spot where the 1128 00:55:17,809 --> 00:55:14,940 Flying Saucer allegedly landed uh so one 1129 00:55:19,970 --> 00:55:17,819 day maybe this summer I will uh go up 1130 00:55:22,130 --> 00:55:19,980 there and try to you know see if we can 1131 00:55:25,370 --> 00:55:22,140 maybe I can find some some other 1132 00:55:28,490 --> 00:55:25,380 Witnesses or some some relatives to to 1133 00:55:30,829 --> 00:55:28,500 Shell yeah uh you know because I want to 1134 00:55:33,710 --> 00:55:30,839 do something with it you know 1135 00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:33,720 I I went down to uh there was a landing 1136 00:55:39,230 --> 00:55:36,720 in 1946 in Engle Hall and 1137 00:55:42,290 --> 00:55:39,240 uh last summer I went down there and and 1138 00:55:45,290 --> 00:55:42,300 I filmed it and I explored this area and 1139 00:55:48,049 --> 00:55:45,300 that's so fun to do you know to actually 1140 00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:48,059 go to the location and explore it so 1141 00:55:53,089 --> 00:55:50,640 yeah with this case one day absolutely I 1142 00:55:55,370 --> 00:55:53,099 will be there and I will embarrass 1143 00:55:57,370 --> 00:55:55,380 myself with with knocking doors and 1144 00:56:01,130 --> 00:55:57,380 talking to people 1145 00:56:03,710 --> 00:56:01,140 that is a true investigator you have to 1146 00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:03,720 do that and you let me know I'm not too 1147 00:56:08,990 --> 00:56:05,700 far from you nowadays if you need 1148 00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:09,000 someone to uh hey hey I'll carry your 1149 00:56:13,849 --> 00:56:11,520 your suitcase for you if you need I I 1150 00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:13,859 don't care I want to go there too 1151 00:56:19,609 --> 00:56:17,040 um I mean it's easy for you to get to to 1152 00:56:22,670 --> 00:56:19,619 Engel Hall mingle home is in the south 1153 00:56:25,069 --> 00:56:22,680 of Sweden where this UFO Monument is The 1154 00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:25,079 Landing in 1946 it's not that far away 1155 00:56:30,530 --> 00:56:28,079 if you go to Denmark and you take uh 1156 00:56:33,109 --> 00:56:30,540 basically a bus and a train you can you 1157 00:56:36,410 --> 00:56:33,119 can reach it I know it's easy to say of 1158 00:56:38,930 --> 00:56:36,420 course but it's no that's that's you you 1159 00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:38,940 said said the right words Bus and Train 1160 00:56:45,349 --> 00:56:42,660 because I cannot drive yet in Europe I'm 1161 00:56:48,890 --> 00:56:45,359 too scared I I'll get there I'll get 1162 00:56:51,170 --> 00:56:48,900 there but wow man that's fascinating I'm 1163 00:56:54,650 --> 00:56:51,180 so happy thank you for sharing that that 1164 00:56:58,849 --> 00:56:54,660 story with us um well hey we are gonna 1165 00:57:01,730 --> 00:56:58,859 head over to patreon to hear about a 1166 00:57:05,210 --> 00:57:01,740 modern day men in black case that you 1167 00:57:07,130 --> 00:57:05,220 were able to uncover which I'm really 1168 00:57:09,470 --> 00:57:07,140 interested to hear about so guys if you 1169 00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:09,480 want to hear that story head over to 1170 00:57:15,530 --> 00:57:12,000 patreon to hear that Fred's going to 1171 00:57:17,930 --> 00:57:15,540 stick around and tell us that story and 1172 00:57:21,049 --> 00:57:17,940 um maybe one or two more of his other 1173 00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:21,059 favorite UFO cases that is Sweden but uh 1174 00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:23,280 before we go here Fred on the Main feed 1175 00:57:29,210 --> 00:57:26,160 uh can you tell us what else you're up 1176 00:57:32,809 --> 00:57:29,220 to do you have any plans uh of more 1177 00:57:35,390 --> 00:57:32,819 articles coming up or uh or filming I 1178 00:57:36,650 --> 00:57:35,400 know you do a lot of filming as well 1179 00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:36,660 um let us know if there's anything you 1180 00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:40,200 can tease for us well keep an eye on my 1181 00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:42,240 medium account I have a couple of 1182 00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:45,839 Articles coming out I might even talk a 1183 00:57:51,130 --> 00:57:47,760 little bit about one of those cases on 1184 00:57:53,569 --> 00:57:51,140 the patreon version of this 1185 00:57:55,970 --> 00:57:53,579 currently I'm the story producer for 1186 00:57:59,089 --> 00:57:55,980 Spirit act which is a huge paranormal 1187 00:58:03,829 --> 00:57:59,099 show they're in the UK right now filming 1188 00:58:06,589 --> 00:58:03,839 one episode and I'm also waiting for the 1189 00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:06,599 first test print of my new book 1190 00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:09,680 because what are podcasts for 1191 00:58:16,730 --> 00:58:13,680 because you know I've written a book yes 1192 00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:16,740 uh and I hope that yeah I hope that book 1193 00:58:23,089 --> 00:58:20,400 will be out in in next month in March no 1194 00:58:25,250 --> 00:58:23,099 what is a February March yeah uh it's 1195 00:58:28,010 --> 00:58:25,260 called northern northern lights High 1196 00:58:31,790 --> 00:58:28,020 strangeness in Sweden where I only 1197 00:58:33,970 --> 00:58:31,800 writes about weird weird cases from the 1198 00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:33,980 20s up to the 1199 00:58:41,390 --> 00:58:38,880 late 80s or early 90s often related to 1200 00:58:44,569 --> 00:58:41,400 you to humanoids and flying saucers and 1201 00:58:45,770 --> 00:58:44,579 time Rifts and other kinds of wonderful 1202 00:58:48,170 --> 00:58:45,780 things 1203 00:58:50,450 --> 00:58:48,180 awesome well we'll definitely have to 1204 00:58:53,630 --> 00:58:50,460 have you back on to talk about the book 1205 00:58:55,309 --> 00:58:53,640 when it comes out that sounds really 1206 00:58:57,710 --> 00:58:55,319 really interesting 1207 00:59:00,410 --> 00:58:57,720 um well where can we find all of your 1208 00:59:02,569 --> 00:59:00,420 work and everything you're up to well 1209 00:59:05,569 --> 00:59:02,579 outside my medium account where I 1210 00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:05,579 publish all my articles basically I I 1211 00:59:10,730 --> 00:59:08,400 would say that best way to to hang out 1212 00:59:13,789 --> 00:59:10,740 with me is on Twitter the infamous 1213 00:59:16,370 --> 00:59:13,799 Twitter nowadays I was almost on my way 1214 00:59:21,170 --> 00:59:16,380 away from there but I'm there you know I 1215 00:59:23,470 --> 00:59:21,180 have a lot of friends and yeah and my 1216 00:59:26,510 --> 00:59:23,480 name there is 1217 00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:26,520 it's quite easy to find 1218 00:59:32,569 --> 00:59:30,240 um and I also have an Instagram is where 1219 00:59:35,210 --> 00:59:32,579 there's a lot of old UFO books and 1220 00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,220 sometimes cases I write about and other 1221 00:59:39,829 --> 00:59:37,200 weird stuff so I would say that those 1222 00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:39,839 are the best places to hang out with me 1223 00:59:44,569 --> 00:59:42,240 and I'm one of the good guys because I'm 1224 00:59:44,830 --> 00:59:44,579 following back if you're not of 1225 00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:44,840 course 1226 00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:47,280 [Laughter] 1227 00:59:53,089 --> 00:59:51,599 exactly guys all the links to to Fred's 1228 00:59:56,270 --> 00:59:53,099 social media can be found in the show 1229 00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:56,280 notes below so be sure to follow him and 1230 01:00:00,230 --> 00:59:58,319 I really am looking forward to your book 1231 01:00:03,230 --> 01:00:00,240 but we're gonna head over to patreon 1232 01:00:04,130 --> 01:00:03,240 right now to hear a story about the 1233 01:00:06,770 --> 01:00:04,140 modern 1234 01:00:10,190 --> 01:00:06,780 Men In Black encounter that Fred was 1235 01:00:13,309 --> 01:00:10,200 able to dig up and another case that you 1236 01:00:16,609 --> 01:00:13,319 might see in his upcoming book as well 1237 01:00:19,490 --> 01:00:16,619 so Fred thank you so much for finally 1238 01:00:21,710 --> 01:00:19,500 joining me as a proper guest on 1239 01:00:22,500 --> 01:00:21,720 somewhere in the skies today